Today I received the following comment on my blog post Language, Truth and Logic; and, as my reply was getting a little lengthy, I thought I would answer it here in open forum.
Thanks for your comment Max:
“As you are a Christian, Richard Dawkins will never be able to convince you of his point of view. You are the opposite side not the neutral side. That’s exactly the problem with Christians; their truth is ‘the’ truth.”
First off, I do fully understand Richard Dawkins’ point of view and I was actually very interested in reading his book The God Delusion. As an eminent and well respected scholar, emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford and probably the most vociferous atheist of our time, I was expecting a lot more from his book.
The central argument of the book is indeed pitiful as I pointed out in my previous post and I am sorry if that language offends you or causes you to think of me as having a completely closed mind. But the fact is that it does not matter whether you are a Christian or not, anyone with a decent grasp of logic should be able to understand why his argument is fallacious.
With regard to your comment about Christians, that’s quite a generalisation. Perhaps you’ve never met a Christian who is prepared to debate in logical terms without reference to personal revelation or recourse to the Bible. That was actually the point of my post.
If you are interested in reading what I had to say about The God Delusion, you can read my posts here:
And, if you can open your mind to truth and the application of logic, this is why Richard Dawkins is wrong:
As you will see, the above post simply looks at the logic of his argument and shows it to be false. As I said, without reference to what you call the Christian “truth”.
The fact is that it is ridiculous to attempt to argue for the proposition that God does not exist on the basis of logic, as he has attempted to do. And, whilst I have great respect for the man and some of his other work, I have no respect for his argument.
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I did not read the other post yet either, will when I am done here.
Perhaps, as I have found in my practice, when one objects it is he or she that feels threatened, not challenged. So sorry… As I noted in a previous comment by Marty, “the trouble with Christians is their “truth.”” It reminded me of an article I read a few days ago. Just remembered where the link it hold on for a moment while I get it.
Found it: “Do you speak Christian?” The article is about a book regarding the language used by “Christians.” I quote the word because as you will see by the article the author of the book feels many use the terminology without knowing the truth of what it means.
Personally as a minister it is astounding to me how many people do not even know what it means to be a Christian or that Jesus’s last name is not Christ. After much study and an abusive childhood, including the “fear of God,” I have done major studies in several religions. When I read the “word” of god I do not read the definition that others do.
But as always, we read through veils, those stories that have become who and what we are. But no, the “truth” is relevant, but not defined the same for everyone. We lend what works for our behavior and beliefs. Much the same as the man who beat his wife nearly every day of her life because Timothy spouted that his wife should be obedient and if not then punish her. Talk about twisting words.
Thank you Will, bless you for your courage to speak out. I am inspired.
Priestess Connie
I had a friend in high school who when asked “Who is an atheist?” put up his hand. He also put up his hand to the question “Who is agnostic?”. The teacher asked him how he could put up his hands twice and his answer was that he didn’t believe in a god but just in case…..
I also rate myself a 6 - just in case, but I find the whole issue of whether there is a god or not to be irrelevant. Here are two of my reasons. I must have more but two will do to start.
1) I can be just as good and moral being an almost atheist as someone who believes in a god. In fact, looking at history, we see far too often that believers commit terrible, immoral acts in the name of their god. I don’t care if you believe in a god but I don’t see that it does any good.
2) I look at all of the excellent articles you (and others) have written about struggling to do or to improve. I don’t see anywhere that a belief in a god, helps you be more successful with those struggles. In fact, watching and listening to people interpret religious documents differently seems to increase that struggle.
Having said that I’m only pretty sure that there is no ‘god’ I do believe that there is something above and beyond what our 5 senses tell us about our physical being. So I’m a 2 on the other scale (i.e. I’m almost positive) that there is something that either joins us together or provides us access to information and capabilities we don’t think we have. However, I find the concept of an arbitrary all-powerful being very hard to accept and even a cop-out because it provides the ability to put responsibility elsewhere. I find it totally unbelievable (a 7) that there is a being who actually cares about us. Maybe we were created by a god but he either doesn’t care about us at all or doesn’t care about us as individuals. When I see all of the pain and suffering across the world, atrocities that are committed in the name of different gods, I am quite happy to believe in myself, live a good life and search for that something else.
3) (I never could count). My ‘extra’ point is that I find it totally arrogant to believe that any one group has identified the one ‘true’ god be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. If there is one thing that makes me a 6 instead of a 7 it is the consistency across all races that every one (or almost every one?) has a belief system in a higher power or powers. How any one of these groups can claim that their view of that power is the right and only one is totally beyond me. I might become a believer the day that ‘god’ shows up and clears up this confusion for us.
Hi Geoff
A few thoughts on your comments - and thanks for making them:
Your Point 1: True, I agree.
Your Point 2: Can I point you to my book (free download) …
The 7 Keys to Success
Your Point 3: Yes, I believe we all need to respect each other’s opinions.
Will
I haven’t read your post about Dawkins yet, nor have I read “The God Delusion”.
That’s exactly the problem with Christians; their truth is ‘the’ truth.” or that can be the problem with some or many Christians. The task is being confident in ones own reality and belief without the need to aggressively challenge others. When I’ve seen Dawkins on TV, he comes across as pretty passive aggressive in his arguments. For me, I’m happy to to accept Richard Dawkins sense of his own reality and belief based on his scholarship and application of logic. The points of view are useful from the stance of balance. The packaging and delivery is somewhat distasteful at times. Interesting article.